I will admit to being a virtual "spelling Nazi" as the newsgroup folks put it. Call me intolerant, but I can't stand spelling mistakes to the point where I'm the appointed spellchecker of most of my friends - they submit their word docs to me after they've used the regular spellcheck! But I can put up with folks who don't "correct" full words. I just wonder why they don't.
grammar stuff i think you are very right.here is a communication place.of course grammer and other stuff are important but the focusing point is that we are sharing ideas.and while doing this we don't have care about grammar that much.my native language is not english but i think language means so much anyway.
I think if you can understand it, then it doesn't matter. I can't stand pseudo intellectuals. English is my second language. Those that complain about pronunciation or punctuation should try two languages. furthermore not everybody had the luxury finishing school. So they should not be discriminated on for not writing so called proper English. And to call people morons for not being able to articulate in what they are trying to say is pathetic. Sorry about my 2 cents worth. However I felt that i had to say this. regards moon
Moon, it amazes me that you and Vega, both with English as a second language, communicate in English on Maplestory and here at WorldSims. I am in awe of anyone who can fluently speak, read and write in a second language. I think this thread was referring to people who are lazy in their typing. There are some people who use textspeak, which is truly lazy on the internet. Use it on the cellphone but not when they have a perfectly good keyboard at their computer. No excuse for lazy textspeak - it's difficult to read and it looks like the English language got hacked to pieces. Some people just use poor spelling, grammar and punctuation. Part of this could be through sheer laziness, or it could be due to their inability to compose text (and I don't mean that in a derogatory way - there are all sorts of reasons why people struggle with literacy). There are spelling and grammar checks available so that should help. There are several people in my family with dyslexia and learning difficulties, especially with literacy. Whilst I do not judge them or rubbish their efforts, I do encourage them to make the effort with their writing so it's the best it can be. Having said that, I also believe that those who are lazy in their writing do it because they can. It's the internet, not school. It's their private time, their relax/chill out time - they would say, why spend longer to add punctuation or to actually think about their grammar and sentence structure? I guess it comes down to tolerance and respect for others, which is a debate that will go on for some time. It takes very little time to type full words rather than abbreviations. If you type using internet-speak (zomg, lol, rawr, hehe, lmao, rofl, and so on) ALL the time, then you dumb yourself down and lose the ability to show off all those wonderful words in the English language that you've acquired throughout your life. I use those internet words/abbreviations sometimes, but not all the time. I guess the main thing is that if people can't be bothered to put some effort into their writing, then they can't expect anyone to put the effort into reading. Communication is a 2 way thing - have respect for the needs of the reader, and the reader will understand your writing and respond accordingly.
I agree with you hugz. I suppose that its a little personal with me. I was teased at school for having an accent and not spelling correctly. I felt intimidated. So is probably a sore spot for me. I also had a step dad who was a journalist, who use to be-little me for my language skills. I try my best, however some of my sentences go back to front. lol regards moon
Moon, I completely understand what you mean about being teased. When it happens throughout school, it stays with you for life. Even as adults, just one comment from someone can upset or offend you. I have always been tolerant with people who post messages that are difficult to read or understand. I always consider the reasons why they have posted like that, and if I can understand it then I just respond normally. I try to avoid judging them. However, when it's such gobbledygook that I can't understand it, I then wonder why they couldn't have made at least a small effort. There are those who have English as a second language and those who have a genuine literacy difficulty (and it seems so widespread nowadays for people to have some literacy difficulties), but there are so many more who are just lazy writers who don't consider their readers at all, then they wonder why they don't get a response or why people can't understand them.
I agree with everything that Hugz said. Proper english is not about grammar and spelling it is only about respect. Respect for your readers, respect for the language and self respect. It is disrespectful to use linguistic slang in a written medium that permits full expression. Likewise it is disrespectful to ridicule someone for spelling errors that may be typos (and yes even the word typo can lead to arguments: is its plural typos or typoes? The answer is either because it's an editorial choice. I never complain about apostrophe misuse within internet forums ... except in forums that devote themselves to such nitpicking. Nor do contemporary mis-usages upset me: eg "would of" cf "would have"/"would've". Would has come into written usage as a result of estuary speak where the spoken language is littered with dropped consonants and pseudified poshings-up consisting of overstessed consonants or vowels. Where butter become bu'er (the glottal stop being emphasised) and hospital becomes HOhssSPitul, it was always going to be inevitable that would've (said: woulduv) would mroph into "would OV" and there's only one way to spell that in writing. If you know what you mean when you say something you don't stop seriously to examine how it means it when you look at it written down. So many words and expressions have evolved and changed their meaning over the centuries it is ridiculous, even to consider, attempting to stop the process. English may not be the world language used by the most persons as a first language, but is almost certainly the one most often found as either the first or second language. As such it is not owned by any one people, we who use it as natives have our own distinctive vocabularies and grammar and again it is disrespectful to use ambiguous terms where the intention is to cause offence. Ah ... time I went and did something useful ...
When I lived in England, I lived in a place where nearly everybody -that I knew- talked just like Mirelly described (wud ov, bu'er, etc.) and - though I can't remember it - I'm pretty sure that I talked like that as well. I was brought up in England and I spoke just like everybody else did. But it seldom got as bad as "I go'a ge' 'ome to read this le'er tha' I go' yestahday". I consider myself lucky because I can speak (and write) two languages fluently. It comes in handy in my English classes because I don't have to study the language quite as much as the rest of the people in my class (this is in Sweden, BTW). In every language, there are slang words. Since I moved back to Sweden, I've noticed that a few new slang words have popped up in the language(some of which, I use quite frequently when I'm talking to my friends :blush. For example: "stop dissing me" and "that is so fat" (fat meaning big - yeah, it's strange but I still used it a lot when I was little - I went through this period where everything was "fat" ) and, my favourite, "bother" instead of saying "I can't be bothered". I can think of lots more but I can't possibly translate them. It amuses me that people (like myself) actually use these silly wrods! :silly:
My favourite new bit of slang is "book", which means "cool". The reason? Book is what you get when you type a text message on a cellphone using predictive spelling, thus hitting 2-6-6-5 produces "book" as the first suggested word. Kids being idle little buggers, just leave the word book because they assume the reader will know they meant "cool". Book is now creeping into spoken use as well.
English as second language I understand you very well Moon. English is my second language too since I'm French Canadian. It's only with pratice that I improve my English speaking. I still make a lot of mistakes while I'm talking but the people are helping me a lot by showing me the correct way to say something. I also improve my French by learning other languages. With or without accent while speaking we can discover a lot about everything just by speaking-reading-writing English. So cool!
Unfortunately, I don't have any deep or profound insights to add to this conversation, except to say that I agree with all of the aforementioned notes. I will say, though, that I'm really envious of any of you who can fluently speak, understand, and write in two laguages. Yo se un poco de espaol, pero tengo problemas comprendiendo cuando personas hablan como ellos hacen en una conversacin--muy rapido. Yo nunca quise estudiar espaol--estoy mas interesante en frances. Or in English... I know a little bit of Spanish, but I have problems comprehending it when people speak as they do in conversation--very fast. I never wanted to study Spanish--I'm more interested in French. What can I say, it was my parents' decision. Either way, to those who are fluent in two languages, more power to you. Maybe I'll be able to join you someday.
You've found someone on your side JohnEZ. I don't want to be pretentious but take a little peak on my website and you will understand what I mean!
Yeah! I've got the power!! :dopey: *me sticks tongue out at John and skips around him singing 'I've got the power'*
Oh and Mya, I think it's really cool that you've got millions of different languages on your site. *respect* :weightlifter: Woo! *runs circles around mya* (In case you haven't noticed, I'm feeling kinda energetic today. :silly
So am I! *runs excitedly in squares* ANYWAY! I'll be in AP Spanish this year so maybe, just maybe... I'll get a little better at it. Then I can move on to learning French.
Just a comment but, Why do both of the Senate Craftmasters in this conversation have people kissing in their avatars?
